The Pendulum has Swung Back with Guest Fifth Ring

Welcome to the Oil and Gas Sales and Marketing podcast where every week your hosts Mark LaCour and Matt Bertram share proven strategies and real-world tactics to help you connect with customers and close more deals. Let's do this. Welcome back everybody to the Holy Gas Sales and Marketing podcast. We're still with our buddies at Fifth Ring downtown Houston. How's it going Ian? How's it going Todd? Really? This is the last time I saw you. You're the bee here.

Howdy-howdy. And Matt. And it's Friday. And it's Friday. Go Texan Day. Yep, and Matt you walked in the cowboy hat. I haven't seen that in a while. Well you know, it's Go Texan Day. Alright, review. We don't have a review. Come on audience. Leave us a review. It takes a couple of seconds. Go in the show notes. There's a link. It's the best way for you to help your peers find the show and then give us some feedback. If you love what we're doing let us know and if you don't love what we're

doing we'd like to hear that as well. Our last reviewer actually mentioned a tool called Zoom Info and Matt guess what? I'm in discussions with them about sponsoring this exact podcast. Don't want a good review. Go to waste. Leave a review. You never know what will happen. Come on that. Alright, so today's topic. The pendulum has swung back. Todd brought this topic up basically talking about the difference between here and in Europe in the energy transition and how that affects

messaging and communication. Todd, what a great, timely topic because it's legit. Things are changing and it's changing fast. It really has. So yeah, the conversations that we have every day, we're in a moment in time of flux. There are regulatory issues that are challenging us every day. There are staffing and recruiting issues that are challenging our clients every single day. There's the sentiment of the industry that is challenging us consistently. This

doesn't even go to the operational issues of the difficulty of what we're trying to achieve and the innovation that goes into all of the work for this industry. I think the overarching thing is the pendulum is always swinging. It's at what point in time can you capture the right sentiment and as you're crafting your story for the right audience to say where are they in the pendulum? Going back a few months ago, I sat and listened to an amazing sustainability panel of

some very, very large organizations here in Houston and each one of them had a very unique perspective on how they're emerging through this transition. And I really resonated with me of the ones that are taking their time, thinking about the science, thinking about their operation and being measured in their approach. And then there's others that are bolder, that are louder, that are saying we are who we are. We're going to do what we do. We're drilling. Drill

baby drill. Drill baby drill. You hear that drill baby drill. And the others that are just paralyzed to, I don't want to make a decision because I'll make a bad decision. Any decision I make will be a bad decision because I can't please this group. I can't please this group. And then I'm just vanilla. I'm just right down the middle, which is I don't have a stance anyway. And when they come to us thinking about these problems, talking about these problems, they're all right.

At some point, there's all pieces of information that's right. And where's that pendulum in the swing of things? So Ian has a European perspective at a global perspective with Singapore in the US. I have have the view here from our operations. But maybe you can tag on to that, Ian, on your perspective. No one's unaware of the global nature of the energy industry. It only takes Saudi Arabia or the Middle East to sneeze and the rest of us catch a cold. And let's

not get into the invasions of other sovereign nations, which have cut off supply to large parts of Europe. You cannot escape the politicization of the energy industry because it is after all the largest industry in the planet today. What we've seen in Europe is that pendulum swing maybe three years ago before the invasion of Ukraine, it was all about sustainability and ESG and people were reticent in the energy industry, even to defend the position

that has modernized and industrialized the world as we know it. It was a no defense situation. Roll on three years where supply is in threat and domestic security of supply is top of the political agenda. And suddenly the energy industry is back in vogue. So there's the extremes of swing in a matter in political life of a couple of weeks. I think the industry needs to be bolder, not in defense of what it's done because there are some issues in terms of carbon

and the impact on community in the world that you cannot step away from. But we have to be bold enough to talk about the steps we are taking, albeit incremental at times, in decarbonizing the industry that we all thrive within and the world survives on. And I think the huge misunderstanding of politicians is that we can flick a switch somewhere and suddenly move and transition from one type of fuel to another. And I offer this as a moment to reflect on in Europe

in particular and you folks can talk to the Americas. It took us a hundred years to wean ourselves off coal. One hundred years to wean ourselves off coal because you need all the infrastructure to change the nature of the fuel supply. And for people to think in the matter of weeks or months or years or even a decade that it's going to change, it just isn't going to happen. Therefore has to be a maturity from politicians and leaders as to what this

thing could and should look like. And we should applaud every step the energy takes to decarbonize its footprint. Yeah, I don't want to go too deep in the politics, but we have to talk a little bit about it because it's such a big factor here to your point, Ian. We have allowed and everybody in this world that lives in a democracy and votes has some ownership in this. We have allowed politicians to be able to

control our energy policy and our energy mix, and that is a recipe for disaster. Even look at things as cycles, whether you're building out a huge solar complex or a huge field in the North Sea, you're looking at a decade from start to actually production. Political cycles don't run 10 year cycles. So inherently there's a conflict there. And then when I look at what's going on with the super majors, BP and Shell

doubled down on renewables, which was great. Chevron and Exxon didn't now look at the returns on these two companies. Chevron and Exxon have pulled so far ahead of Shell and BP, and now Shell and BP are backpedaling. Not that I didn't like the fact they were first to move. The problem with renewables is not renewables. Renewables are great. Our energy mixes of species always change.

Not that long ago, Ian, you and I are not quite that old, but not that long ago, we thought killing whales was a great way to light our home. That didn't work out very well. Since we can't disconnect politics from energy and it's a part of the mix. And since there are winners or losers, if you're a company, you need to figure out how do you position yourself as being a winner and how to make sure you

stay out of that loser box. Now, here's where it gets hard. I mentioned the public companies and BP, Shell, Chevron, Exxon, they have shareholders. So their ability to manage risk with shareholders is much less than a private company that doesn't have to answer to shareholders. It's a mess from a PR marking point of view, like what is the right thing to do?

And then to your point, it changes so fast. Our ESG show was one of our fastest growing shows ever. And now that term ESG has a negative connotation in our industry. And so we're changing the name. It grew because of that name just two years ago. Now we're getting rid of the name.

We're not that the concept isn't valid. The concept is still true. You know, if big companies out there are struggling with where do they fit in this energy transition messaging, how would they even know where to start? We could talk about scopes and how they report and all the rest of it. But from a messaging standpoint, I ask our clients to be authentic because

at today's day and age, you're going to get found out really quickly. If you're not to be values driven. If it matters to the business, let's talk about it. If it doesn't matter, let's not kid people. Because again, I love that it will be found out. And I often say to people, and I hope maybe in rodeo week, I get away with this.

It needs to pass the sniff test. Does it smell right? It needs to pass the sniff test. You have to have the authentic values driven messaging about sustainability. And I think there's two things I believe we should celebrate every incremental step of improvement.

I really do. If only from an internal communications perspective, I really do because it matters. Don't overplay it. Don't overblow it, but be authentic and be measured. That's my single view in it. And I think sadly, because of the political pressure and you talked about

the addressable majority, I talk about the addressable majority. Those at one end who you'll never persuade that you're doing enough. And those at the other end who are of the view that why would you bother? And both extremes exist. The addressable majority is where you should anchor your messaging. And in doing that, many of the companies we deal with want to say nothing

because one extreme of the other will, as we talk about in Europe, pile into them, whether it be on social media or otherwise. And I want them to have the courage to talk about moving the needle because I'm a big fan of cycling and cycling teams have won countless tournaments based on incremental gain. A 1%, a 1%, a 1% adds up to an extraordinary amount at the back end.

So let sauces and industry pursue the common goal that I think we all have as a livable planet for the next generations. But let's celebrate every step we take as opposed to hide it under a cloak and dagger. I know we're talking like high level politics and stuff like that, but I would just say pick a direction, pick a direction. You're not going to please everybody.

Be who you are. You're going to be found out. You can't just have your LinkedIn and your Facebook and hide your Facebook, like even on an individual level as like a salesperson, who you are as an individual is out there and who you are as a company is out there. And if you're just vanilla, like we talked about in our last podcast,

you're going to get lost in all the messaging. You should pick a direction. You should go in that direction. You should build alliances and move in that direction, move your messaging in that place so people will know who you are and can identify you and you can generate value from that in itself.

But if you're stuck, stand still in the middle and you don't know which direction to go, people are going to pass you by on both sides. So I was fortunate enough in my career to do consulting work with Texoga, with Namoga, with Koga, with API. And Todd, real quick, because we have a global audience. If people don't know what those acronyms stand for.

Yeah, yeah. So Texoga is the Texas oil and gas. Koga is the Colorado oil and gas. Namoga is the New Mexico oil and gas. So all of those represent the operators and the companies with as an association to be a bit of one voice.

And they are the advocates for the industry. They're the ones telling the stories on behalf of the industries. And I think that they are doing what they can to tell the stories. But unfortunately, they're telling the stories to the individuals that are already advocates, that are already around the table, because we already believe we are who we are versus telling the story outside the table, outside of the

room, to the right individuals to really compel them. I think of my kids, I think of the next generation, and they're all really purpose driven and care about all the right things that are important. But what can be more important than to bring energy to people around the world that are deprived of it, affordable energy that are deprived of it? And I think, I mean, that's really my passion as well, is to be able to provide

for others that are less fortunate. And our industry does that in such a big way. And as a storyteller, the opportunity to tell that story even greater. And the other thing, Todd, is that here in Europe, we're spoiled by cheap, abundant energy, right? We're having very heated discussions over things like carbon, carbon dioxide emissions.

You have people in most of the world just trying to feed themselves. And they would actually laugh at us if they weren't crying, looking at our lifestyle, saying, you're doing this business, arguing over what? Where I don't have enough food to feed my family, or I have to choose between putting fuel in my car and paying my rent or whatever. In some ways, this conversation is a wealthy nation conversation.

However, from a corporate point of view, it's very important. And Ian, I agree with you a hundred percent. It took me, unfortunately, 10 years to learn this because I really try to help people, but I have finally learned that people on the extreme side is a waste of my time to talk to, no matter what I say or do, nothing's going to change. And it's the people in the middle that if I want to help, those are the ones

that are most likely to listen. If you run a corporation and you're worried about customers, not that long ago, BlackRock had a list of companies that they would not invest with unless they met certain ESG metrics. They had funds that were ESG centric. You fast forward to now.

This is February 2024. All of the ESG funds are gone. The one BlackRock is now courting the oil and gas. I would have lost a fortune on that bet. They flip flop. And I know y'all help very large companies with their corporate messaging

around important stuff like this. How do you figure out what is the right way for a company to position itself when the market, when this specific subject around the transition to renewables isn't so much flux? I think the demands from many of the investment communities have waned a little. They're not as dogmatic as they once were.

And you've example BlackRock there. And I think that's the same. And I come back to this question of the achievable, that whatever target that company sets, they have to set it with some achievable plan to deliver it. And that comes to authenticity and it comes to a commitment. And I'm happy to message anyone, no matter what the marginal gain

they're making, because they're making a step change improvement. It might never be enough, but they're moving in the right direction. It's for others to challenge the company at the speed that they're moving at or otherwise. And I want to pick up on a point that you made earlier on. And I'm going to give you a microcosm that happened maybe three weeks ago in Scotland and a political commentator, not a politician, a political commentator

said, you know what? More often than not, the general public are actually your litmus test. And they did a survey, it was in Scotland and 85% of the population of Scotland were in favour of continued development of oil and gas, offshore oil and gas, as it is in Scotland. And let the political parties are fighting over whether it's the right

thing to do, the wrong thing to do, windfall taxes, moratoriums and drilling. And you think, hold on, 85% of one would hope reasonably saying people see the logic in this, that you're fighting in the political extremes, trying to appease one group or the other to exactly the point that you make. Let's have a common sense and grown up view. So coming back to your question, how would I advise a company to do it?

Public company, we've got some reporting to do. So we've got to be mindful of that. And we need to think about all of the impacts, scope one, scope two, scope three. And we need to think about what that target is. And we need to think about what the plan to get there is. Then we can start to articulate the message of progress.

Private companies, slightly differently, we need to talk to them about their commitment and the resource in terms of getting there. And again, I am not the wisdom of Solomon to say it's enough or not enough. They own the balance sheet. They understand the production capability and things. They have to give us the plan, the practical plan to do it.

What I would never support is the greenwashing of it, because it's never going to last. It's going to peel off and it's going to create a problem. It's so easy to spot. It really does your company a disservice. Just I would rather you stand up and go, I don't care about baby seals and I don't care about the environment.

We're going to make a profit. Then try to tell me you don't when it's obvious. I love your point. Just be authentic. Well, I would even say most humans, like when there's abundance, they share it. I've seen so many oil companies.

Like do so many positive things. And they just need to amplify the things that they are doing to change the perspective. Oh, oh, listen, I hate to interrupt you. I got to back up. This is the worst industry about talking about themselves. This industry is the longest entry does some of the most positive impact

of things to mankind ever. And we never talk about it. Never. I'm not talking about bragging. I'm talking about this literally just sharing the facts. Let me give you an example that y'all may not know when ExxonMobil built that corporate campus in spring.

They put two thirds of those trees in cold storage and paid a team of tree doctors keep those trees alive for three years. When they finished the construction, they replanted it with those native trees. Nobody knows that story. And I'm going, people, people think your company ExxonMobil is destroying the planet. And you did something like that.

And they go, we don't brag. Our industry is horrible at talking about the benefits that we do. I tell you what, fifth ring has a challenge here in that if you can help just a few more holy gas companies, talk about the positive things they do for everybody, their employees, their shareholders, the local communities. As an industry, I think we need to own the fact that we've done a horrible job of that.

And that's why we're facing a lot of this negative public perception in that we've never educated the public on what we do. But I think, Mark, the green fear and it happened to me just recently in the UK, where people pile into a comment that you might have made publicly. If somebody does a little because it's not enough, they get piled in on. Yep. Why can't we celebrate the increments?

A little wins. Yeah. Come on. I'll give you an example. Any other, whether it's sports or whatever else, we would celebrate the incremental improvements, but because it's not enough for the extremists, either end, there's a fear of communicating anything. I'll give you an example.

And fifth ring is doubled down. We know who we are, we know what we're good at, and we're in this industry. And we have been for 30 years and we're going to be here 30 years later to do it. There was a target maybe three years ago, five years ago of individuals targeting companies like us that were out there doing work with those energy companies and boycotting them, canceling them, shutting them down.

And some turntail and said, we're not taking that business anymore. Some kept the business, but then did audits on them to call them bad people as they were taking their money. I'm not going to call them out, but I know exactly who they are. And it's unfortunate that, as he said, is you get called out for this. And then you're at a pivotal point as a company, as a business owner,

to say, are we staying true to who we are and focusing on what we do best? And it's not to say that we wouldn't have half of our business in clean energy, innovation, renewables, all of the above. We'll do all of that work and they all need it. And not only do they need it, who's better to do it? Then the people have been doing it for the longest amount of time.

They're coming to roost also the individuals over there that are saying, well, why can't we get this big thing built? Come to the people that have been building it for years. Well, they're also facing a lot of the same pushback that the oil and gas industry face for years. You're seeing people not wanting renewable projects in their backyard.

People not wanting to build the transmission lines. You're seeing a lot of offshore wind projects get canceled before they get built. So they're facing a lot of the same backlash from the public that we have. Now, one day I want to find the public person that doesn't like the oil and gas industry and doesn't like renewables and just ask them, what do you want? Like, you know, horse and I'll build you a fire.

You have to give in a little bit. But the renewable industry, unfortunately, is starting to face a lot of the same negative public perception that we've been facing for two decades now. Well, you turn off the energy of all the people that are saying this. It would fix itself over. I mean, some of this is the algorithms, right?

There's an echo chamber online and there's motivations behind what some of these people are doing. A lot of it's bots, OK? Like online, I can tell you really like to be able to even have that discord where has civilization advanced to? And if you even look like I look at like history and I read a lot and we were kind of talking about this from that, you look at like the fall

of dynasties or industry or civilization, I guess. And some of the debates we're having right now politically, I'm not going to say like this conversation, but some of the things were the same things in ancient Rome of what we're talking about now is and we have the ability to argue in that way because we live a lifestyle that we do that the energy industry provides. Everything here is driven by that.

And I think that messaging as an industry, some of these organizations you talked about, I think that the newer generation or my generation coming into it has a balanced view, OK? And they do like to do their research and the research is out there online. I think the vast majority of people do fall into the center, OK? Like most people are in the center and that's really where you want to speak to.

I've looked at a lot of political marketing. I find it fascinating. All the things that starting with Obama, that just revolutionized digital marketing of how he won. And a lot of his team actually went over to Trump. I don't know if a lot of people know that, but essentially what you're saying,

the incremental improvements, I think is absolutely key. I think we're moving dangerously close to the world of politics again. The vocal minority and it is a vocal minority will assuage politicians who believe they're on some kind of zeitgeist or they're on a wave. And the world's economic and energy future is far too important to leave in the hands to your point, Mark, of short term politicians.

It's ridiculous. Yeah, 100 percent. If you're a company out there and you're struggling with some of the stuff we talked about, reach out to fifth ring, they're really good at helping you make sure you get your message, not the most popular message, but your message out there.

Speaking of that, it's time to start winding down the show. It's time for us to do our LinkedIn fail or tip of the week. But before we get there, you know, the drill audience, sign up for our two newsletters are not going to beat you up. Just go sign up. The links are in the show notes, Matt and I's contact information.

All our social channels are there. We're working very hard on our insiders group. Now, Ian, do you have a LinkedIn fail or tip of the week for our audience? I do have a LinkedIn bugbear. I believe that every form of communication should have some underlying message. It should have some connection with your audience and give them a reason

to interact with you. And I just get so fed up to the back teeth of people taking pictures of themselves at bloody airports. It just does my head in. It doesn't matter to me and it doesn't matter to anybody. But your bloody mother, just stop doing it.

Stop filling the feed with just crap. What about my food? My food? Can I take this? All right, time. If people want it to learn more about fifth ring, where should they go?

I'm going to be pretty bold here and I'm going to give my cell phone number. No, do not give your cell phone numbers. Just text me immediately when this drops. www fifth ring dot com. Todd Gregory, Ian Ord, love to chat with you. Yep, the link for their company will be in the show notes along with their

LinkedIn bios. All right, folks, let's get out of here. Remember, make a difference and not a sale. Check us out next week for another enriching and cheeky episode of oil and gas sales and marketing podcast, a production of the oil and gas global network. Learn more at OGGN dot com.